Відео

Yes, there's soemwhat of an effect there because that high forward weight is still causing a moment that would want to tip the bow forward. With heavy, long sights like the Garmin it's probably even more pronounced than a highly skeletonized sight.

@@DIYSportsman because of your vid (which is one of the best out there on this topic) I had a play with solo rear stabilisers. I also watched a good Chris Bee vid on stabilisers where he talks about grip 'bias'. Basically the idea that if you were to set up your weights at full draw in a hooter shooter, yes you'd achieve perfect bow balance but then a gust of wind or a fatigued dip and the bow will easily move off that equilibrium because your bow arm/grip are switched off. BUT if you are initially unbalanced eg. a solo rear bar has the bow naturally canted ever so slightly left, then your bow arm will subconsciously have an ever so slight correction/tension to it that actually makes you more stable to these de-stabilising things. I'm naturally double jointed and my wrist is floppy with no structure to it even on low angle grips. I really benefit from biasing the bow to cant left by half a bubble if I draw with my eyes closed. The subconscious correction that then goes into that lets me hold steadier and longer. The amount of weight seems not to matter at all for me, but the location of just a bit of weight is more important.

Canon Vixia. The model I used has been out of production for years, however, the mid-level current camcorder models from cannon or sony would be similar.

Did you wipe down the vanes with alcohol first? Which adhesives did you try? Were they fresh? After they updated materials, Kyle really like the Bob Smith Maxi Cure glue, though I've still had good adhesion from other glues like Loctite professional from the hardware store. The key with those glues is tossing them if they're old, storing them in a cool, dark place (we even refrigerate most adhesives at work). Then cleaning the shaft and base of vane, and getting a really good, tight contact surface. Dry fitting the vane first in the jig before applying glue can help ensure the jig is set up optimally.

I don't know for certain though I'd strongly assume they used the .204 for everything since the Axis shaft is what the full iron will arrow system uses.

Have you tried them before? I bought a pack of the aerovane ii a couple years ago. Initially flight and drag at 40 was no better than a blazer. But then I realized and confirmed that I was getting a strong knuckle ball. The shaft wasn't really spinning. After listening to dorge on some podcasts, I figured it was likely because I used a standard fletching jig to get thr zero offset, and my fletching was probably not 100% perfect, allowing the vanes to fight one another. Other recommendations like minimum speed limits for performance and use of very compact/aerodynamic broadheads only made me a little hesitant to keep pursuing testing. But at some point I'd like to test them again if they were professionally fletched.

@@DIYSportsman I have some but haven’t put them on to test. I was just curious how (if tested) they would do in a drag model and flight testing. I also wanted to see if there has been any slow mo video of them in flight, I haven’t found any. According to Dorge it would compliment the drag. I mean it’s still going to have some drag but the lift would be something worth testing. Thanks for the reply.

Personally I'd either add a fourth vane or go to a higher profile vane in the 3 fletch.

He has his own vane through Iron Will Outfitters. It's the Max Hunter profile but in a different material. If you go to his website they're available for sale.

Yes it's interesting comparing the sound profile from my compound against even my traditional bows. Very different.

If in fact deer are experiencing and processing movement at 4x “slower” speed than us humans (with uniform focus across their degree of vision), It sure makes sense they’d be able to see the incoming arrow, process the info and start moving before impact, even at short distances.

It's an interesting concept for sure that requires more testing. My main hesitation is that if you've even watched video of an arrow being shot at a camera, even in slow motion there's not much movement to observe. It's like a point that gradually gets larger as it gets closer. I shot at a doe with a recurve a couple seasons ago that had her head buried in weeds feeding and she about hit the ground by the time the arrow got there, making me think that at least in that instance, it may have been more sound than sight. But as mentioned more testing to be done.

It's been a while since I've used a whisker biscuit. But what I've seen is that often if someone asks about them and a strong helical, people will mention the vanes getting wavy or showing signs of use (depending on the vane) from the extra contact and drag going through the bristles. With even a 2.5deg offset tall vane and a drop away, they'll get spinning very fast off of the bow. Moreso when matching spin direction of course, but not to the point where I feel like you'd need to force it at the cost of extra drag, contact, or premature vane wear.

In vanes vs. string induced spin...Vanes win every time. Is there a mili-second of instability when it stops and changes direction....negligible.

Yes that's an interesting thought. Makes me wish I had a CFD license to play around with it. From what I remember reading from other university study research, deer are more sensitive to frequencies around 4-8kHz, whereas ours is most sensitive around 2-5kHz, and their upper limit goes higher than ours. Obviously there's some overlap there but it makes sense to bias toward a slightly higher range. When I'd done my historical sound testing I'd pick one of the louder frames before the arrow passed over the mic, and I'd look at a dB vs frequency plot focusing on the area under the curve in the ~4-8kHz range to compare one vane vs another.

I can do that. I have mylar XS wings in 60mm high and 100mm that I got for traditional. They're light but not very durable with contact. They're widely used in barebow and olympic shooting with small diameter arrows and target points. Even the 60mm high are only like 0.5" tall if I really flatten them out, and they're shorter curled and taped on, so my speculation is they wouldn't have the same level of forgiveness with broadheads but need to try.

@@DIYSportsman I have used slightly larger vanes with broadheads, and got surprisingly good results. They were Slick Trick magnums… known to fly well, but they are still 4 blade fixed heads. Being very light, it helps slightly with FOC, giving the vanes a little extra “leverage”. You are right, they don’t like contact, but I think there might be something there. Hopefully, the slow motion is good enough to see if the vanes do open up. Subscribed 😉

Technically a 2-3 degree straight offset is already helical once applied because the vane needs to wrap around the shaft a little in order to fully stick along the entire length of the vane. Helical clamps help accentuate that "wrapping" and make it easier to adhere with high offsets.

Yep I remember seeing those videos back in the day. Pretty cool. I finally invested in a high speed camera so I can start getting similar kind of visuals and data.

I believe they fletch their arrows at a 3deg RH with those hybrid hunter vanes.

If it works, it works so I won't knock it. That said, I would be suspicious if there's some sort of contact or tune issue if that much feather was required.

@@DIYSportsmanI shoot plastic vanes for my expandable’s like G5 Deadmeat, but those big old 3 blade Rothaar 200 grain Snuffers it took 300 or 260 spine Axis and 4 big feathers to make it fly perfectly. I only shoot 20 yards 25 max and my Snuffer set up would be useless for the Elk guys out west at their ranges. I just understand I have to get 20 yards or less. Preferably less.

Thanks Darrel!

That's a cool concept!

That sounds pretty cool.

They are still a good choice. There are some options which have similar stability and are a bit quieter. But those tall blazers have always done well accuracy wise with broadheads at whitetail ranges.

I dont claim to be an expert, but I think baseballs, golf balls, etc are moving from the magnus force. Per "Modern Exterior Ballistics" by McCoy, "Magnus forces acting on spinning projectiles are much smaller than those observed for low-velocity spinning spheres." Spin drift has more to do with the gyroscopic forces causing a bullet at very high rpm to tip toward the direction of twist. And even then, as far as I understand, it's a very, very minor factor in all but really long range rifle shooting. Bullets are heavier in the back than the front, so they need to spin fast enough to prevent from tumbling. Arrows are already stable being heavier in the front. They don't need high rpm gyroscopic stability. Therefore we say spin drift isn't really applicable with arrows.

Yes it can. However the fletching largely prevents this. Spin drift happens for several reasons. The Magnus effect can move an arrow but not much, as the arrow doesn't spin as fast as a bullet. Maybe over 100 yards you can get a few millimeters of drift. Maybe. It's really minor at these speeds.

@@DIYSportsman Thank you! That was very thorough.

@@YoureSoVane Thank you for clearing that up for me.

No, but thanks for your input 🙂

@@2cthetruth Ok, so putting the vanes 6" from the back won't make any difference either? Why not the middle of the arrow?

On paper, you do increase the lever arm. So the general rule of thumb is to have the vanes as close to the nock as you can without getting some type of facial contact. But in practice, if they're, say, 1" vs 1.25", I don't know that the difference would be enough to be practically significant.

@@DIYSportsman I see a lot of guys with fletching a good 1.5" back from the nock, especially when using wraps. They could easily move those fletching an inch or more. I would think that would make a difference and it certainly couldn't hurt.

28” shaft, move the fletch 1” from the very end of the shaft, would shorten the lever arm 7% from the centre of the arrow. Every 1/4” would equal approximately 1.8% change in leverage similar to raising FOC%, weight excluded. Someone correct me if wrong

I plan on doing more test results and set up videos this summer. I'm not sure I understood the question entirely. Did you mean to type "taw" or something other than tic?

By the way, just a recommendation, there must be a ton of people like me, not native speakers in English. We would all like to thank you if you could slow down your speech a bit

Thanks for the suggestion. In the meantime, UA-cam also allows you to slow or speed up video playback in the settings. You can switch to 0.75x or even 0.5x which may help.

I just use a spreadsheet on Google Drive for that personally. Can access with my laptop or phone and just update whenever I buy a new point.